Human Connection and Purpose in International Education, with Hayley Wilson

In this episode of Interbeing we dive into a profound conversation with Hayley Wilson, Deputy Head of the Senior School at Kellett School in Hong Kong. We explore the role of coaching in fostering a sense of community and humanity within schools, emphasizing values of care, curiosity, and meaningful relationships. Hayley shares her personal and professional journey toward adopting a purpose-driven and coaching-focused ethos, highlighting the significant cultural shifts at Kellett School toward connection, respect, and intentionality in both student and staff development.

02:04 Introducing Hayley Wilson and Kellett School

03:17 What Does It Mean to Be Human?

04:21 The Frenzied Nature of School Life

05:52 Finding Alternatives to Frenzy

08:34 The Importance of Connection and Culture

12:09 Discovering Coaching and Its Impact

18:54 The Power of Purpose in Education

21:50 Creating Conditions for Future Success

22:22 Purpose-Driven Leadership

23:52 Building a Culture of Respect

26:10 Challenges and Intentionality in Leadership

30:05 Cross-Cultural Leadership Dynamics

32:41 Reflections on Team Building

35:01 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Hayley is the Deputy Head Pastoral, Wellbeing and Community and DSL of Senior of Kellett , The British International School in Hong Kong. Hayley has 18 years of experience as a teacher and leader, 13 years of which have been in an international setting - having worked previously in the USA and Egypt. Hayley holds an MA in Leadership of Mental Health and Wellbeing in Schools and has written a bespoke course in how to be a Senior Mental Health Lead in an International Setting.

Hayley is a purpose driven educator, committed to supporting every child as part of a team who are committed to living their values.

You can find us on Linkedin at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

Transcript

This transcript is AI generated.

[00:00:00] Naomi Wood: Hello and welcome to series four of the MSB podcast and to our new name, inter being 

[00:00:13] Matt Hall: in our previous seasons, we've explored themes like belonging, organizational health, and the future of education. 

[00:00:19] Naomi Wood: This time, we are returning to the source of what we do. Coaching and how the values of coaching can support people in schools to look both inwards, reconnecting with their own humanity and outwards to cultivating generative relationships with care and curiosity.

[00:00:38] Matt Hall: You might be wondering about our new name. Inter being is a term coined by Zen Master Tick na Horn. It describes the deep interconnectedness and interdependence of all things. Nothing exists in isolation. Everything is in relationship, constantly influencing and being influenced by everything else. 

[00:00:57] Naomi Wood: This thread of relationship of inter being colors, everything we're exploring this season, we are in conversation with voices we are drawn to in the world of coaching and with educators in international schools who are walking with us, reflecting on what's changing for them and the questions they're living into.

Now, 

[00:01:15] Matt Hall: we're not here to present coaching as the answer to everything. Instead, we want to have honest, open conversations about where coaching works, where it doesn't, and what possibilities lie ahead. 

[00:01:26] Naomi Wood: And this season is just the beginning. Inter being is also the name of our annual in-person gathering, a space to explore these themes more deeply face-to-face.

You can find more about that in the show notes. 

[00:01:40] Matt Hall: As always, we are guided by curiosity and by the aliveness of the unfolding conversation between us. We ask everyone the same first and last question, but what happens in between is shaped by the people in the room, including you. 

[00:01:54] Naomi Wood: So thank you for being here.

[00:01:55] Matt Hall: Welcome to Inter Being

Today. We're being joined by Hayley Wilson, who, um, is a real, um, kind of partner of MSB. She's deputy head of the senior school at Kette School in Hong Kong. And we've been really lucky in that we've run a lot of our programs with Kelle and we've also developed new programs in partnership with them and in response to what they've asked for.

So, um, we're really lucky in that we have this kind of laboratory of a international school in, in Hong Kong for us to, to grow alongside. 

[00:02:32] Naomi Wood: And that word partnership is so important to us because. You know, we, we come into schools and we offer programs and offer coaching, but it's really what the school then does with it.

That is the transformation of culture. And I think Haley, as you'll hear, is a wonderful example of a leader to whom that matters. 

[00:02:55] Matt Hall: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it's, it's there, it is a big, it's a big school calling and, and well known and um, I think there's gonna be. So much for us to learn and, and I hope from, for others to learn from, from a conversation about the work that they've done.

So yeah, let's dive in. Well, welcome back. It's lovely to be here again, and delighted to be joined by Hayley Wilson. And we're gonna dive straight in. We always ask the same question in this season, on this day in this place, what does it mean to be human for you at the moment? Hayley 

[00:03:24] Hayley Wilson: such a lovely question.

And I just, just as for context right now, for me it's World Mental Health Day and it is, um, coming to the end of a day in Hong Kong and we've just had feeling connected, um, where we're taking time to connect as a community and just. Get to know each other. And I think being human is recognizing that we have flaws.

We are showing up with the energy that we have, that we wanna arrive, knowing that people are inherently good, and that we wanna come with positive intent, and that we need to take the time to slow down and check in with people and get to know people and not always be. So frenzied in, in our approach to how we, we, we, we work with people in schools, whether that be students with parents, with, with colleagues, and just trying to show up and be in the room with them in that moment.

And so it's quite lovely to, to be recording this video. You One World Mental Health Day, when as the school, we've made such a, a big deal of it today. That 

[00:04:20] Matt Hall: just feels like really good timing. I'm, I'm curious about where do you use there frenzied. Tell me about frenzied. 

[00:04:25] Hayley Wilson: I mean, I think it looks different to everybody and I think I can sometimes be guilty of being quite a frenzied person.

I can be very guilty of having lots of tabs open at the same time. And maybe that's just the nature of my job, um, being temp head pastoral. So, you know, I, I can't. Very frequently plan my day and know that that's how my day's gonna go. I call them grenades. They get thrown in, um, quite frequently. And I, you know, I'm expected to, to show up and, and deal with those things.

But frenzied can be how hurried things feel for us, whether that be we are hurrying the learning and we're, you know, expecting the students to come along much, much quicker than, than maybe they're ready to come along. It can be frenzied in our approach to, you know, I've got a four period day and I've got an e, c, A at the end of the day.

It can be frenzied in, I've gotta go and have a duty or, and then a student in my tutor group is crying, but I actually need to go and do my printing and mark this assessment ready for my year 12 lesson. I think frenzied looks so different to everybody, and everybody's capacity to cope with their frenzy and their busyness is different.

And so how, how do we recognize that and support them with that? Not coming in as a hero and trying to solve things for them and, and you know, maybe taking out people's workload from them, but, but recognizing that everyone's day can feel frenzied in different ways. 

[00:05:42] Naomi Wood: I think there'll be a lot of educators listening who feel quite seen.

Now Good with that, with that description. And so I wonder where you are in that inquiry of what's, what's an alternative? 

[00:05:58] Hayley Wilson: It's really challenging. What's an alternative? Um, just last week I had this thing where my face started tingling. Right. I was like, what is this? And I went to the doctor. I was being very super sensible and, uh, we had went and had an MRI and everything.

Everything's fine, thankfully. But I realized, I, I think it's stress and I think that the way that I have worked for the last 18 years, I've been teaching since I was 22, can no longer continue to serve me the way that I friend approached, having all of these tabs open and just being go, go, go, go, go all the time.

Will not continue to serve me so that I'm showing up the very best version of myself for my school, for my students, for my colleagues, but also for my family at home, because they tend to get the, the most tired Haley at home. Right? So what, what is the alternative? Is actually taking a step back and thinking, okay, if this isn't working for me, and I.

I like to think of myself as a very capable person, as an, as an efficient person. Then I, I also need to take a step back and think, right, how is this impacting or the way that we're working potentially impacting my colleagues and, and their busyness and how they're feeling? And so it's not about making people work harder, but it's finding ways of us working more efficiently such that it serves us and that it continues to serve our students.

I think that's really important that we don't. Forget them when we're trying to find ways and solutions going forward. So we have changed the timetable, um, in our school. So we used to have a seven period day, and now we've just moved to a four period day. Right now that does feel quite busy because we're all planning this new curriculum, right?

Planning the lessons and planning. That takes time. And I've, you know, been teaching positively K Lessons, which is our equivalent of our PSHE lessons. And so we're really thinking carefully about making these lessons meaningful. Now, of course, in time. That sort of planning's gonna become second nature to us, right?

But what we are feeling, and this is from the students, this is from the teachers who are talking to me, and this is just my own personal anecdote and observation. The day does feel calmer and it feels shorter. And what people are enjoying is when you have, you know, PPA. For a lesson. You can get so much more done in 80 minutes than you can in 45 minutes.

And those are backing onto breaks for people, um, or backing onto a lunchtime. And that's so beneficial. Again, not always possible to have that, that full PPA time as a pastoral member of the school, but it is something that we can try and rely on in terms of just having that calmer approach. And then also I think really thinking about the type of meetings that we're having.

What are the content of our meetings? So I think schools can become very, very guilty, very, very quickly of being really operational in every meeting that they have. I absolutely can see why we have to have operational discussions. But where is the time? To slow down and connect and check in with where that person is in that moment.

So I line manage all the heads of year, and I line manage the science faculty, so the head of science, and I also touch base with the heads of expressive arts and two assistant heads. And at the top of my agenda, every session is just an opportunity to tell me how you're feeling spiritually, emotionally, physically, vocationally.

And I give my colleagues an opportunity to pre-populate that. And sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. But that's always our starting point and I often find that starting that way really lets us just unpack with how we're arriving in the room and how we're feeling and what's been going on since I last saw you.

Which then does lead us sometimes to talk about maybe operational things, but also to talk about things related to culture and you know, the type of school that we wanna be part of. And. When we are part of a school where the culture of the school aligns with our values and our purpose as educators, I think that in itself serves us well.

I rambled on for a very long time then, didn't I? No, not 

[00:10:03] Matt Hall: at all. Not at all. I'm like fascinated by the, I'm like, God, can I come and work at kt? That is that change of the school day sounds brilliant. 

[00:10:12] Naomi Wood: Something that we see is that bringing coaching into. An organization, you have the behavioral side, but I hear you talking about the structural side.

Mm-hmm. And. Changing our school day to bring in more calm. We're you're bringing in a human element at the beginning of your meeting. Mm-hmm. Mm. 

[00:10:33] Hayley Wilson: Yeah. I think that's really important. I started doing that a couple of years ago. I read, um, well, actually, I, I heard, um, an incredibly inspirational speaker. His name's Mush Ack Ine.

He's the provost of Harriet Watt in Malaysia, and he is so passionate about purpose-driven education, and I read one of his books and he shared this. In his book about a way of connecting, and his book is about connecting in a world of AI and the importance of stories and connecting with people. I thought, I just love that and the team actually like it so much that they actually asked me to add it to our agenda.

When we meet as a team and we actually start with that. How are we all, how are we showing up right now? And I think what that is really giving people the opportunity to do is just talk with a bit more radical candor. You know, we have that trust and I know that the term psychological safety is often frequently misused or overused, but I think that it really does help with that.

We can see the person potentially before the professional, recognizing that the professional is exceptionally important and we all think that the role that we do is valued and, and is. Integral to the success of a school. Um, but also we just wanna check in and just see, see where people are at and what's bothering us.

And just, I think it just clears the air, you know? Otherwise people can just carry things and you can, you know, you can either see it on their face for some people, for some people you can sense their energy and then for some people they will just bottle it up so much to the point that they might get to tears and we, no, nobody wants that.

Mm-hmm. You know, so that's just, just checking in and I think, you know, having. A coach-like approach is helping more people feel confident in having meetings like that. 

[00:12:09] Matt Hall: And I'd love to just, uh, hear your story of your experience of discovering coaching, using coaching, you know, when it first appeared in your professional personal life and, and where you are now with it as a 

[00:12:21] Hayley Wilson: how far back as a 

[00:12:22] Matt Hall: human it goes.

As far back as you like. Okay. 

[00:12:25] Hayley Wilson: Um, I, I actually shared this, um, a session that we did as a, as a team for coaching. But, um, I think if you look back in time and, and you met 24-year-old or 25-year-old Haley Wilson, she didn't have a lot of empathy and she was very, very driven and go, go, go, go. And let's, let's just get everything done and everybody just do a good job and why can't you just do a good job?

And she, she did not have a lot of empathy for people. Not gonna delve into potentially the whys of that. Um, but. One thing that changed me enormously was becoming a mum. And it, it did literally flip my perspective entirely on where people were, were coming from. And at that point, I had recently moved, well, I, I was living in America.

I was away from my family and I became a head of Year. And prior to being a head of year, I was, um, in an academic role. I was head of Key stage four maths in a very big school in Plymouth, in southwest of England. And through connecting on the pastoral side, I think my human side started to open up my, my element of connectedness and closeness and wanting to support people and seeing the reward in that.

I found that so much more rewarding than my academic role. And I actually, when I left America, I went back to Wales for a year to a bilingual school to be head of maths and equally like, it's great, it's very measurable, but it just didn't give me the same drive and motivation and purpose to get out of bed in the morning as a pastoral world did.

And so arriving at KLI a few years later after having a brief stop in in Egypt, I was given the opportunity to be the designated safeguarding lead, and I hadn't done that before. Whilst I was aware of safeguarding teams and what they needed to do, I'd never been that person before. And you know, that's a heavy role and you, you hear heavy things and you can often carry things.

And I did carry things, uh, very much on, on my heart and I carried them home and it weighed down on me. And so. Very, very, very lucky to be supported by a school who believe in professional development. And were open to me suggesting ways and, and training that would not only support my team, but would support me as a safeguarding lead.

So the team and I did, um, an introduction to counseling skills, which is a little bit like coaching, but not right. But what it did help with was the listening and how we show up and we're listening, not necessarily with the questions. And then the next thing that I did next was I dedicated a hundred hours to getting my Level three certificate in counseling studies.

And that for me was a transformative experience because I was able to, to really connect with myself and my humanity. And I'm really glad that I took that time to really understand myself better. And I really do feel that the skills that I learned there helped me become a better safeguarding lead, um, a better, better partial leader, and then a better leader for my team.

What was so wonderful about the coaching skills is how that really helps you develop people. Like that's just so powerful, like how you can develop people for them to see the value in themselves. For them to try, not only to problem solve, you know, solutions for themselves, but it's what I love is that problem solving going forwards.

We're not going backwards. We're not, you know, delving into childhood trauma or anything like that. We're, we're delving into, you know, where are you going and, and how are you operating and how are you operating amongst your team? How are your team operating? And I think, you know, having done all of that legwork over a series of years really put me into a place that just cherished the opportunity.

To be first of all part of a team that WA that was doing this coach size skills and then be part of a school where it rolled out so that many people had the opportunity to develop the sort of foundational steps of what coaching is. Not necessarily be qualified as a coach, but to have that sort of taste or understanding of it.

And I think doing something like that can and will impact culture in a positive way. 

[00:16:17] Matt Hall: Yeah, so sounds like it's been part of your journey for, for quite a lot of time and, and, um, thank goodness that 24-year-old Hailey found it. 

[00:16:26] Hayley Wilson: Oh, honestly, she's an entirely different human. 

[00:16:29] Matt Hall: So bring us up to the present day because, you know, let's, you know, let's be really honest, MSB have been delighted to be doing lots of work with Kelle and, um, and, um, I'd be just really, really curious to hear your experience of.

Of that work in, in the last couple of years in, in the current context. 

[00:16:45] Hayley Wilson: So I was part of the first group to do it and I was doing it with sort of the senior leadership team of the school, um, and the senior leadership teams of the three campuses. And it, it was a great opportunity at, at that point just for us to connect as a team, um, for us to, you know, be arriving and, and doing the work together to sort of all set the tone of, of where we wanna go as a school and, and why this is part of the culture that we wanna go on.

And I think the reason for me, that was so powerful. You know, our school principal was doing it. Our bursa was doing it. Our director of communications was doing it. The heads of the three campuses were doing it. Assistant heads were doing it, and we were all doing it together. Arriving as equals, wanting to make sure that we are, you know, all on this journey together because this is, this is what we want K it to be as a community.

Right. Since then. What has been so wonderful is to see other colleagues go through the process and how positive they felt about it and how they've come back and talked about that human connection that they've had with other colleagues that they wouldn't have had potentially. Had they not have had this opportunity and this experience, I think that's been really powerful.

I mean, uh, one crew for, like I said, it was just like we were crying. It was brilliant. Like we connected so deeply, we need to get together more frequently. And that in itself is so powerful when you can have an opportunity to experience connection with a colleague in that way. Doesn't that make work such a more pleasurable and enjoyable place to be?

Mm-hmm. I just can't imagine how hard it must feel to wake up every morning and dread going to work. That must just be crushing. You know, you're in your job for so many hours every day. When people are waking up in the morning, not necessarily jumping out of bed, you know, people are tired right in the morning, but like, yep, ready to go to work today.

This is what's ahead of me. I'm looking forward to it. You know, people feel purpose. I love that word, purpose in their job, and they really connect with their own personal purpose. And tools like coaching, I think help bring out the best in all of us because we can be having those, those really deep and meaningful conversations where there's thoughtful listening.

[00:18:53] Naomi Wood: Hmm. As I've been listening, I've heard you use the word meaning purpose, and I'm getting a sense of, of what your purpose is, but I wonder how you would frame it. Golly, 

[00:19:10] Hayley Wilson: yes. So I think purpose is, for me, one of my like core values. I just think where you live a life of purpose, you are living a happier life.

You know, we're not happy all the time, don't get me wrong. No one's skipping around rainbows and daisies. But, but what you are is you, you, you can see that what you do matters. Um, and I think if everybody is able to attribute purpose to their work, whether that be your showing up to work every day to provide for your family.

Or you're showing up to work every day because you want to impact the next generation so that the world becomes a better place. You know, your purpose is your own, and it, it's very personal to you, and no one can tell you your purpose is wrong, but I think where you have it, you have better mental health.

I think you are better equipped to do your job well. And I think, and I might, I don't know, I might get. People disagreeing with me on this, but I think you, where you have clear purpose and it shines through, you have more credibility because people can see that you care. And when people can see that you care about what you are doing, they invest in you more because they don't think you're just here for a paycheck or that you're just here for a name badge that you, you'll hear because you genuinely care about the people in the building, whether that's a school or or an organization outside, like.

They see who you are when they see your purpose. 

[00:20:39] Matt Hall: Hmm. 

[00:20:41] Hayley Wilson: Can I name it? I don't know. But we did as a team, following our work with you and some work that we did at the beginning of this academic year, we spent a lot of time talking about purpose and the purpose of the school. So you can have individual purpose, you can have purpose as a team, and all of our teams have actually taken the time to articulate what their purpose is.

Leading to the purpose of the school and the purpose of the school has been stated as we're inspiring minds and enriching lives. Us as a senior leadership team, I love ours because it's so succinct that I can remember it, but ours is we create the conditions fulfilled individuals, and that means our staff.

That means our students, and it's at the top of our agenda from August it's been there, and we are reminding ourselves that when we are making decisions. Our decisions enabling all the individuals in our building to feel fulfilled. 

[00:21:38] Naomi Wood: I'm gonna use the word Matt, that sounds extraordinary. Oh, honestly. And I think here is the alternative to frenzy.

[00:21:48] Matt Hall: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:50] Naomi Wood: Doesn't mean 

[00:21:50] Hayley Wilson: that it doesn't exist though. 

[00:21:52] Naomi Wood: Understood.

But honestly, I'm moved by that. That you've created the conditions for yourselves. Yeah. To articulate something that you feel, and that is a calling into the future. 

[00:22:09] Hayley Wilson: Yeah, all the academic departments have done it in the senior school, um, and they've sort of shared it with all the other heads of department.

Us as a pastoral team, we've done that as well. And it's been really inspired by a lot of the reading that I did in the summer as well. And whether those books were linked to sport, whether they were linked to politics, whether they were linked to education, kept coming back to purpose. What are we trying to achieve?

How are we going to get there? And just reminding ourselves of that. And I think trying to have that mindset. Of course, we are still having operational discussions, but at the same time trying to have, trying to find time and make sure that we are deliberately considering how we have discussions that develop us as senior leaders.

How we are developing as a team of, you know, pastoral leaders or, um, developing a, as a team of, you know, people who are looking at the progress of students in, in key stage five. How are we having sort of bigger thinking discussions rather than just being like operational, operational, operational. And it's hard.

We have to be very intentional with it, and we're not always achieving it. Don't get me wrong. I don't wanna make it look like we're, you know, nailing it all, all immediately, but like, we're trying. I think that's what matters. 

[00:23:25] Matt Hall: And I heard in there that one of the things that you identified is that you can't get to that point without that layer of connection.

First, you know, you, you said about that, making sure that you really were seeing each other and meeting each other as humans. Mm-hmm. First was important. Sounds like getting that layer in place has been important to them. Be able to do the. The other work around purpose, purpose and meaning. 

[00:23:50] Hayley Wilson: Definitely. I, I really do think so.

And so where we did it as a whole school, it's really difficult to have that, that one-to-one connection. But we, we spent time with the middle leaders, um, talking about purpose and um, talking about values as well. And, you know, we have values as a school, respect, kindness, and integrity. And they were wonderfully co-constructed by the entire community, by parents, by staff, by students.

We had never taken the time to attribute personal meaning to them. What do they mean to us? And so whilst you could argue that that might not have been the best use of induction week to do that, my counter would be is it's critical for our culture. And so we as a senior school team, just we took time to define what respect is and what respect is not, what kindness is and what it is not.

And we've created that into a, I'm a maths teacher by trade into a Venn diagram. Um, and you know, within the Venn diagram is what it is. And then outside of it, it's what it's not. And the intention for that is, okay, we all know now. The expectation of how we treat each other, right? And that we could use that to support us in those moments where we do have to have those more challenging I, or difficult, whatever you wanna call those conversations.

Radically candid conversations, courageous conversations with colleagues that we line manage, or they're our peers. You know, we do need to have those conversations, but hopefully it's a tool that people can be reminded of. No, this is the school that we work in. This is what we stand for. This is how we treat each other as colleagues.

And what we've also done, you know, is to go a step further and we've actually done that with all our students as well. So all the tutor groups in the senior school have got a Culture of respect document, and they, as tutor groups have determined whether a tutor, what respect is. And so they, you know, again, just attributing that personal meaning to what does this word mean to me?

Hmm. I can't tell you yet if it's paid off. 'cause we're only eight weeks in. 

[00:25:50] Matt Hall: But it's coming. 

[00:25:51] Naomi Wood: We hope it'll, and part of me is thinking how different this feels in an international school. I'm aware that when you know people are away from home mm-hmm. This is a new environment. Yeah. Where am I? Where do I fit in?

Yeah. Do you think the stakes were 

[00:26:10] Hayley Wilson: almost higher? I think they really, really can be. I think. This is my third international school. Um, I've worked in America, worked in Egypt, and here in Hong Kong in Egypt. It was very much a compound life. Right? So a lot of your social life was connected to your school.

Hong Kong's not necessarily the same. So Hong Kong people have maybe social connections outside. Of their school. But that's not to say that they don't have connections within school. And I think it would be foolish of us to not recognize that, you know, coming away from home can be very, very challenging and can be very, very isolating.

And I'm not gonna lie and say that I haven't felt very isolated and lonely because I have, even though my husband's here, my two sons are here, you know, when you join a school as a, as a leader, not necessarily everybody wants to be your friend. Whereas when you join as a teacher. You have a different social construct with people, right?

What we wanna do though is, is just highlight that everybody matters. Everybody has feelings, and that we want to, you know, arrive and, and see that person before us. And we wanna try and take in that bigger picture around them. Whether that be, you know, the senior leadership team talking to middle leaders, middle leaders, talking to teachers and colleagues or you know, colleagues talking to the senior leadership team.

No one I would hope is inherently out to get anybody. We want to create the culture of, you know, trust. And we can only do that when we connect with a person and we try to see the bigger picture around them and that where we are calling out something that is potentially something, whether that be related to impacting culture, whether that be related to dress code, whether that be related to core hours, whether that be related to teaching and learning, whether that be related to how.

A student was addressed and then a safeguarding, you know, log was put in. The point is that it needs to be addressed because that's what the school stands for. This is the organization that we've all chosen to be part of. And that was a question we posed at the beginning of the year. You know, there are 52 international schools in Hong Kong.

Why have you chosen to work in Kop? If you love Hong Kong, there's many other schools to be in. But what makes us special? What makes us want to stay here together? And you know, we were so fortunate last year we only had three new members of staff. Wow. Um, which is wonderful. And that's not to say that won't be the case this year.

You never know what people's personal circumstances are, whether that be familial, whether it went to be career goals. You know, they might not wanna work in an A level school anymore. They might wanna go to an IB school, but. It's just about always coming back to, you know, why, why do we want to work here?

What makes, what makes it special to be here and be part of it? And of course there are days where we're, we have frustrations, you know, we are human after all. And of course there are days where we are, we're tired or we are frenzied, but that no one, no one has. Put those conditions in place intentionally to have a negative impact on you, and that if we've identified that this has had a negative impact on you, whether that be something to do with the calendar or where assessments are, or where a trip's gone out, how can we learn from that and go forwards in a better way?

And I think us as senior leaders showing our humanity and, and being like, do you know what? You're absolutely right. Thank you for pointing that out. We maybe have made a, a decision here that has not best served us next time, this is what we'll do. Does that sound better? And you know, there's an acknowledgement there.

We are human, you know, we are people too. Not just roles. 

[00:29:46] Naomi Wood: Everything that you're talking about sort of comes back to this embodiment of a coaching mindset and just an acknowledgement, you know, I'm not fixing this, something happened, but I just wanna acknowledge that. Yes. And, and I just wonder. Because this comes up a lot.

Um, and I'm really curious about your response. So you've got this sort of values based culture, a coaching mindset, human first. Hmm. And I'm wondering about any cross-cultural or intercultural, um, responses to that. Like how do you bring people from different cultures, different languages, different lived experience with you?

[00:30:26] Hayley Wilson: And I think that's such an important question, right? And it's that like that, that lived experience and it's that acknowledgement that, you know, I grew up in an exceptionally white West Wales and Welsh is my first language. And so my understanding of supporting a family here in Hong Kong who cannot speak English, you know, I'm not necessarily the best person to serve that.

Right. I need to be creating conditions that is supporting them and you know, what we represent as a school. So making sure that, you know, our colleagues are first of all on the, on the same wavelength as us. So making sure that they're getting the same professional development opportunities as we are. So one of our, um, Mandarin colleagues, she did the level two coaching.

Qualification with us, and she was also level three safeguarding trained. So she will come in and have those conversations alongside me because I recognize I'm not best placed to do that. Not only in terms of a language barrier, but also reading the culture. And I think that that's really important. As an embodiment of staff.

We are very much predominantly from the uk, but we do have staff, you know, that are from Hong Kong or from China. And so it's, you know, how how do we work with them and, and support them? And so I think they are supported beautifully as a team, um, by their head of faculty and again, making sure that they have opportunities.

So today at K there is a Fesa Mandarin conference. And I think it's the first of its kind where our Mandarin colleagues are being championed and given an opportunity to develop and feel valued. It's how do you make them feel valued as well? Because if they don't feel valued, then we're not showing them respect or integrity, and it's certainly not kind.

So it's just, again, when they are having these discussions as, as a school or with, with their tutor groups. My, my cot tutor actually, so we have tutoring teams in peers. My cot tutor is the head of of Chinese, and so we actually work off each other in different ways. We recognize we each have different strengths and so how do we, how do we play those?

But she did the culture of respect document with our tutor group while I was doing my one-to-ones. So it's just making sure that her voice is elevated as just as much as mine is. 

[00:32:41] Matt Hall: Is there anything we haven't discussed or we haven't talked about that you'd like to? 

[00:32:44] Hayley Wilson: Well, I. Give a moment of acknowledgement and appreciation to you, Matt, in particular because you came to Kette and you, you visited us and you, you said, you know what, what could we do better?

And I said, I think it would be great if there was something like this specifically for teams and how teams work together. Because whilst we are learning coach-like skills as individuals, how, how does that potentially play out for a team? And I'm so exceptionally grateful for the opportunity. From making stuff better, but also from for supporting it that our senior leadership team did prologue for teams at the beginning of this year, and it was, it was powerful.

It was really powerful in putting a human first, finding ways of. Communicating, I think in a way that we hadn't necessarily done before. And we were, we actually went out for, for drinks as a senior leadership team a couple of weeks ago. And we were talking about it and we were saying, you know, like, you know, could we have potentially, you know, got to the same, same place just by going out for drinks?

And I was like, I don't think we could, um, because of the depth of what we shared. And the depth of the human and, and what we, we gave each other in that room and we gave each other in that space, I don't think would've been created, you know, at a happy hour on a Friday night in Hong Kong. And it was, it was, it was created in, in a very safe environment, which I think has put a, a lot of trust amongst the team, which is so important.

Right? If, if we don't function as a team, then ultimately that's gonna impact our senior school and therefore our students. Mm-hmm. And that's why we're all here then. 

[00:34:20] Matt Hall: Mm-hmm. Everything you've said just comes from a place of honesty. You know, being honest that we need to have a conversation as a team.

Being honest that we need to address this as a school can for sure have a huge, huge amount of courage in just facing what's. True and, and often if, yeah. If we think we're building as a team by going out for drinks, we're definitely avoiding what's true or what needs to be said. 

[00:34:43] Hayley Wilson: Yeah. 

[00:34:43] Matt Hall: If that's the strategy.

[00:34:45] Hayley Wilson: Yeah. Although that did come out as one of our commitments that we were gonna try and do a social more frequently. 

[00:34:50] Matt Hall: Good. 

[00:34:51] Hayley Wilson: That was a team commitment, but it was nice that it came after all of those courageous, um, moments of sharing. 

[00:34:58] Matt Hall: I'm so pleased. 

[00:35:00] Hayley Wilson: No, thank you. 

[00:35:01] Matt Hall: Thanks so much for, for joining us and talking about your, your experience today.

We always, we always get back to the question. I wonder if you've got any further thoughts on, based on everything you've said and where we've explored in this conversation about what it means to be human, 

[00:35:16] Hayley Wilson: that it's never done and we need to keep working on it and that. We need to revisit it, um, on an individual level and hold mirrors up to ourselves.

We need kind people who will be radically candid with us, who are colleagues, but also our family to also hold a mirror up to ourselves and, and help us or catch us in the moments where we're not necessarily the best vision of ourselves and that we are responsive to that and that this, this is a lifelong journey.

And I, I wonder what 65-year-old Hailey will be like. 

[00:35:47] Matt Hall: Well, I look forward to, I look forward to talking to her then. 

[00:35:51] Hayley Wilson: She's way off, by the way. She's way off. Comes around 

[00:35:54] Matt Hall: quickly. Hailey, 

[00:35:56] Naomi Wood: stop it. Matt, Matt's 68.

[00:36:02] Matt Hall: Thanks so much. We'll, we'll see you again soon. Thanks, 

[00:36:05] Naomi Wood: hay. Thank you. 

[00:36:09] Matt Hall: Another really interesting conversation. Um, as always, never enough time. There's so many different angles I felt like we could have. Could have gone down. What, uh, yeah. What stood out for you? 

[00:36:21] Naomi Wood: I think Haley's energy. Uh, I think who she is, how reflective, how self-aware, how kind of humility and alongside that real vision and courage and trust and moving into not knowing and.

Doing that across a, you know, a big organization. And I, I, I think that that word meaning and purpose, I think it's such an engine, it's such a resource for us. And I just felt that in spades with Haley. Um, so yeah, feeling very inspired by, by what she's doing and, and what a wonderful place to start, you know, world Mental Health Day and that coaching is.

Such a one that's coaching has a really important place in, in that, in our wellness and how we are together, how we are with each other. 

[00:37:22] Matt Hall: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I just really admired the, um, kind of intentionality behind what they do. Not leaving, not leaving connection to accident, but making it in intentional and trusting that on the other side of connection lives lots of possibility and they clearly just.

That's so often that is so true of schools and organizations. It's so, it is such an obvious thing to say that you know that, and we say it so glibly sometimes, that the quality of an organization, the success of an of an organization is absolute dependent on the quality of the relationships within it.

But we so often leave that to accident and we assume it will be achieved if we have a social event, for example. Hmm. Which, don't get me wrong, but enormously important, but only gets you partway there, I think because it, that allows people to create connections on their terms rather than being intentional about everyone connecting in the way that is Right.

Within a team or within a year or within a faculty. That word intention really, even though she didn't say it, I don't think, but it really stood out to me as how they are being at Khaled. 

[00:38:31] Naomi Wood: Yeah. And I, and I think the integrity. Of starting with themselves As a senior leadership team, though I know myself, we are investing in knowing each other and having a level of vulnerability, and we are going to articulate our purpose, and I love the humility of that.

We are gonna create the conditions. This is not about ego. This is not about how impressive we are. This is about how we create the conditions for others to thrive. Yeah, so I'm really curious what people listening are taking away, what they're curious about, how they're inspired. And I bet Hayley will be up for a conversation if you can.

[00:39:11] Matt Hall: You can get a hold of her. 

[00:39:12] Naomi Wood: If you can get hold of her. No, she's 

[00:39:13] Matt Hall: got lots of planning time now with this PPA. She'll be fine. Reach out. 

[00:39:18] Naomi Wood: Yeah, so really enjoyed that conversation. Thanks Matt. 

[00:39:20] Matt Hall: Thank you. Till the next one.

Thanks for listening. If something in this conversation stirred something in you, a thought, a feeling, a question, we'd love to hear about it. You can find ways to connect with us and more about the inter being gathering in the show notes. This podcast is part of a wider dialogue, one that unfolds between us, our guests, and you.

So whether you're walking the dog, driving to school, or just taking a quiet moment for yourself. Thanks for being part of it. Until next time, stay curious, stay connected, and keep listening in. This is into being.